KING: I'm John King and this is our STATE OF THE UNION report for this Sunday, July 5th. Just as U.S. troops pull back from their most dangerous operations in Iraq cities, President Obama orders a major new military offensive in Afghanistan. Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen is here to map out the latest in both wars and to discuss the risk of escalating the fight against the Taliban.
More than a week after his death, the saga of singer Michael Jackson is still dominating the headlines. Is it time for the media to pull back? Howard Kurtz and top reporters dissect coverage of the Jackson drama.
And Sarah Palin decides to step down as Alaska's governor. Donna Brazile, Ed Rollins and Bill Bennett are here to talk about her political future, the economy and much more. That's all ahead on STATE OF THE UNION.
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KING: U.S. marines in Afghanistan are in the early days of perhaps the riskiest military operation since President Obama became commander in chief 167 days ago. The push against the Taliban in southern Afghanistan is the first major test of the president's new Afghan war strategy. So far, one marine has been killed, several others wounded in the offensive in Afghanistan's Helmand Province, an opium rich area critical to the Taliban. The escalation in Afghanistan comes just as the United States looks to shrink its footprint in Iraq, meeting with some trepidation, last week's June 30th deadline to withdraw from Iraqi cities.
Here to help us with those challenges and more is America's highest ranking military officer, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Mike Mullen. Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION, Admiral. I want to thank you for starting at the magic wall so you can take us up close. And let's begin in Afghanistan. I want you to feel free to step up to the map wall and show us exactly where these marines are fighting and as you do, sir, explain who is the enemy here. Is it just the Taliban or a mix of Taliban or al Qaeda?
MULLEN: Good morning, John, it's good to be with you. Well, as you indicated, we've recently put in about 10,000 additional marines into Afghanistan, and most of them are in the south.
And as it shows here on the map and this is the capital of Kabul, down here in Helmand is where they're really focused. And I'll take you up close down into Helmand where the fighting is really going on. MULLEN: And you can see specifically in this area of Garmsir, as well as Khan Neshin, which is where the Marines are engaged. But what cuts through there is this river, that Helmand River that -- the whole river valley. And this is really the most concentrated area for opium growing, and we expect significant combat challenges with respect to the Taliban, who have been there. And we haven't been able to both clear -- defeat them and then clear the area. And it's this extra footprint of Marines I think that will allow us to not just secure the area for the Afghan people, but also hold it so that we can develop it and start to move in the right direction economically and from a governance perspective.
KING: In terms of resistance -- sir, I'm sorry for interrupting -- but in terms of the resistance the Marines have faced in the early days, is it what you expected? Or are you concerned that the Taliban are melting into the countryside, if you will, and hiding because they know you're there?
MULLEN: Well, I think generally it's what we expected. There has been some of that.
There's actually been some pretty tough fighting as well. All of that really ties into the expectations that we have.
This has been a Taliban stronghold for a significant period of time. It's grown over the last two or three years. And so what the Marines are there for is to really concentrate on that, clear that area -- I'm sorry, defeat the Taliban that's there, clear it, and then hold it so that, again, we can start to build.
And we think it's going to be a pretty tough fight for, you know, a fair amount of time. You know, weeks to months, certainly, at least.
KING: Weeks to months.
And as you push in that area, one of the concerns, sir, I know you have is that if you look to the south, you see Pakistan. And even in "The Washington Post" this morning, you know, an officer quoted as saying that the Pakistanis on that side of the border do not seem to be cooperating, at least to the point that he would expect.
You recently, in a military briefing, called Pakistan the safe haven for al Qaeda and the Taliban. How concerned are you that even if you are successful as you want to be in the Helmand Province, if they simply melt across the border into Pakistan, what then? MULLEN: Well, I think that's a fair assessment of the concerns. We've worked this pretty hard with both the Afghan military leadership, as well as the Pakistani military leadership.
And, in fact, the Pakistan military has moved out aggressively in the last couple of months, had some successes, and expressed concerns that our interaction with the Taliban now, down here in the south, is going to push more insurgents towards -- into Pakistan. And so from the standpoint of both understanding what the possibilities are and the preparations, I think we're in pretty good shape. We've actually had several meetings, trilateral meetings of the military leadership in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, but we recognize there is going to be tension and we're going to have to work our way through that.
KING: And you talked about this could be weeks or months for this fight. I want your assessment of the broader picture in Afghanistan in the context of what I would call potentially mixed signals on troop levels in Afghanistan in the past week.
General Jones was quoted in a McClatchy newspaper article as saying, "The troops that are there are the troops the mission is going to get." And sir, you were quoted in "The Washington Post" as saying that if General McChrystal says he needs more, you will go to the president and say, "Mr. President, we need to send more."
Are you concerned at all that there's a mixed message in terms of what it will take in Afghanistan?
MULLEN: Well, I think General Jones and I and the president are all on the same page in terms of what we have to do now. President Obama has committed these troops, they're arriving as we speak, and will through the rest of this year.
General McChrystal, who is the new military leader in Afghanistan, is going through a 60-day assessment. His guidance from me and from Secretary Gates is make your assessment, come back and tell us what you need. Make sure that every troop we've got there is somebody that we absolutely have to have, and then based on your assessment, we'll look at future requirements. And all of us are on the same page with respect to that view and his intent.
KING: I'm going to ask you one last question on Afghanistan, sir.
Who is the enemy, and how many are there? Is it Taliban, is it a mix of Taliban and al Qaeda?
MULLEN: What I've seen in the last couple of years is a merging of both al Qaeda and Taliban. It sort of gets summed up in this "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." And we've seen leaders from these organizations move together in a federated way.
So, in ways, it's both. And al Qaeda is supportive of the Taliban. As far as the exact numbers are concerned, it's hard to pin that down, but they're significant, they're growing, and it's the kind of insurgency that the additional troops that were put in there has to get at so we can actually focus on providing security.
It's less about -- as General McChrystal said, it's less about killing the enemy than it is providing security and protecting Afghan civilians. And that's really the thrust. That's what we're trying to do right now.
KING: I want to ask you, sir, to shift over.
MULLEN: Sure.
KING: I know you have a map of Iraq as well there. If you can pull that up for me, a pretty big week in Iraq.
The deadline on June 30th to get out of the Iraqi cities. And as you pull the map up now, I wonder if you can play for me the video that shows our footprint before and our footprint after.
MULLEN: Sure, John.
This is obviously Baghdad, and you can see in the middle where our footprint was. And now, actually in the outskirts here, indicated here and here, is where we've moved our forces.
And we really are out of the cities now. We've moved our forces outside the main cities. You can see here, outside Baghdad, where we have our cities, and we're in support of the Iraqi security forces.
I mean, big transition. We've actually been coming out of the cities for the last eight months. We're at a period of time where we're in support of the Iraqi security forces.
We've reached a very clear agreement with the Iraqi political military leadership, with their military leadership, on how this was going to work. And I'm confident in what I've seen so far that us moving out of the cities has been a very positive step. So I'm really encouraged based on what I see.
KING: Very encouraged. And we're happy to hear that, sir.
I want you to listen quickly to a little snippet from the former vice president, Dick Cheney, who is among those voicing their concern that because they knew this deadline was approaching, that perhaps the enemy in Iraq has just decided to wait it out.
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RICHARD CHENEY, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It would look like, one might speculate, that the insurgents are waiting. And as soon as they get an opportunity, they'll begin to launch more attacks. I hope that's not the case.
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KING: Are you seeing any evidence of that, Admiral, that the insurgents simply knew the U.S. troops would be pulling out, and they're regrouping, taking their time and waiting? MULLEN: Well, we've expected for some time that this is a -- in a period of transition like this, that the insurgents could very well do this. We've seen no indication that there's any -- that they're looking to or we're seeing a trend towards the kind of sectarian violence which was so prevalent a couple of years ago. We have had an uptick in some major -- what we call high-profile attacks, but June of this year was the lowest level of violence since the war started.
I think General Odierno has spoken out about this. He's very pleased with how this transition has started, and again, it's just five days old right now. So we're very focused on it and we're very aware of this period of vulnerability. But up until now, it's gone pretty well.
KING: And 130,000, roughly, Americans in Iraq right now, due to be down to 50,000, sir, by about a year from now. And then, ultimately, all those troops out unless the Iraqis request more to stay by the end of the 2011.
Any reason -- you mentioned it's only five days. Any reason at this point to think that schedule will not be kept?
MULLEN: No, not that I'm aware of right now. And clearly, we have an agreement with Iraq to have all troops out by the end of 2011.
The focus area now is this obviously -- sustaining this security, and then focusing on the elections, which are the beginning of next year. That's the next really big event, and the politics associated with that are critical. And most of the issues right now are for the political leadership in Iraq to resolve.
So we focus on the January time frame. After January, we see a significant drawdown of our troops getting to 35,000 to 50,000 in about the August time frame, a little over a year from now. And from everything I see right now, we're on track.
KING: All right. Admiral Mullen, I'd like to invite you to take a seat and be more comfortable so we can continue our conversation.
MULLEN: OK. Thank you, John.
KING: And when we come back, more with Admiral Mullen on the upcoming trip by the president to Russia, tensions with Iran, and whether it is time to allow gay and lesbian Americans to serve openly in the military.
Stay with us.
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KING: We're back with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen.
Admiral, you just showed us on the map there what you think is the strategic situation in Iraq. I want to talk to you a little bit about the images we saw this past week.
As the United States kept its promise and kept that deadline and pulled out, there were celebrations in the streets. Iraqi citizens celebrating the U.S. troops moving out of the city, many of them calling those troops occupiers.
And in a statement, Prime Minister Maliki focused on the Iraqi government, saying, "The national united government succeeded in putting down the sectarian war that was threatening the unity and the sovereignty of Iraq."
People in the streets calling your troops occupiers. The prime minister not thanking them in his speech. I'm just wondering -- to the parents, the spouses and the siblings of the more than 4,300 Americans who have given their lives so far so those people had the rights to be in the streets demonstrating, so that Prime Minister Maliki could have a democratic government, what kind of message does it send to them when the Iraqi government speaks like that?
MULLEN: Well, John, I've said many times I'm very proud to lead the best military I've ever been associated with in the over 40 years that I've been wearing the uniform. The 2.2 million men and women are just spectacular. And their sacrifices are truly extraordinary, including those who paid the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And when I look at that celebration, that's actually how I look at it. Here's a country that two years ago, was in very, very bad shape, spinning out of the control, and it was really because of the dedication of our young men and women and those sacrifices that we're able to turn it around and put the country in a position to have a future that is bright and was indicated, I think, by that celebration. And I know from my engagement with Prime Minister Maliki, as well as the rest of the political and military leadership in Iraq, they're very appreciative of everything that we have done.
KING: I want to move your attention to other challenges. And let's start with North Korea.
North Korea has tested some short-range missiles in recent days -- a provocative act, according to the White House and other governments around the world -- but not the longer-range missiles.
Do you see any indication, sir, in the intelligence that they are preparing, that some had said they might, to test again the Taepodong- 2, the longer-range missile, that if it is successful, could reach Hawaii or even the West Coast of the United States?
MULLEN: Well, much of what the North Korean leadership has said they would do in the past when they talked about things that they would continue to execute, including a possible nuclear test or a long-range missile, certainly there are possible there. I haven't seen any indications of that in recent days. The seven missiles which the leadership fired yesterday, basically into the sea, similar to what they did in 2006.
There were -- those were violations of United Nations Security Council resolution. They continue to do that. They continue to thumb their nose at the international community. And I think the international community, which has been bound very tightly together to include Russia and China, needs to -- and putting additional pressure on the North Korean leadership, that needs to continue and those sanctions need to be enforced.
KING: You mentioned China there, sir. Both you and Secretary Gates have spoken in recent days about your conversations with your South Korean counterparts, your conversations with your Japanese counterparts about what to do to respond to the North Koreans. But both of you have also said there have been no military conversations with the Chinese, who are, in the eyes of many, the most player, and who we know sometimes don't like the United States military, the United States Navy showing any muscle in their neighborhood.
Is that a hole in or response to this, that you're not having direct conversations with the Chinese?
MULLEN: We have had some contact. And we're committed to renewal of those military-to-military relationships. We obviously know there are differences and concerns, and what's really important about all this is that we have a dialogue, we are talking, so that we can move this relationship forward in a positive way, and certainly have an ability to communicate so that we don't miscalculate such a sensitive time and critical time in our relationship.
KING: You are off, sir, to Russia, I believe in the day ahead for the president's big summit with the Russian leadership there. On the table, more reductions in the strategic nuclear arsenals of both countries.
As you know, as there is considerable pressure on the president to try and get more Russian help when it comes to Iran, its nuclear program, the political fallout after its election. And several senators, a bipartisan group, sent the president a letter this week saying that they hope he will use his "... visit to Moscow to express the deep concern the United States has over Iran's nuclear program and make it known that Russia should not expect progress on issues of concern to Moscow if it does not take a tougher stance on Iran."
Should the president, in your view, sir, link progress and other issues to better Russian assistance when it comes to Iran's nuclear program?
MULLEN: Well, I'll let the president speak for himself.
We have areas that we have common interests in. Iran certainly is one. Obviously, the area of strategic missiles and the start, discussions that you spoke of. But we've got common interests and agreement in places like Afghanistan. The Russians do not want to see the Taliban take over Afghanistan.
Logistics support for Afghanistan, piracy, counterterrorism, counterproliferation, all those things. So we've got areas that we can discuss thing about, things that are very positive and we can move forward on, and included in that, I'm sure, will be discussions where we differ.
KING: I want to move on, sir, to an issue that comes up from time to time that's very emotional and a tough political arguments, and that is whether gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the United States military.
You are the nation's highest ranking military office. And at your confirmation hearing two years ago, I want you to listen to this. You said it was the right policy to have "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
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MULLEN: It's a policy that came in at a time -- in a time it was greatly debated at the time that it was actually put in place. I'm supportive of that policy.
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KING: You said "supportive" two years ago.
Sir, I sat down in recent days with another gentleman who held your job, retired general Colin Powell, who supported the policy when it was implemented but now says it should be reconsidered.
Let's listen.
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COLIN POWELL, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, the policy and the law that came about in 1993 I think was correct for the time. Sixteen years have now gone by, and I think a lot has changed with respect to attitudes within our country. And therefore, I think this is a policy and a law that should be reviewed.
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KING: Two questions, sir. And let me start with the advice you give the president.
Do you still believe the policy "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" should stay, and is that your advice to the president, even though that is contrary to the promise he made in the campaign?
MULLEN: Well, what General Powell talks about is the policy and, in fact, the law. And with respect to that, we clearly are carrying out both that policy and law, and will continue to do that until it changes.
Secretary Sates spoke recently about reviewing the policy to see if -- to make sure that we were executing it in the most humane way possible. It's very clear what president Obama's intent here is. He intends to see this law change.
And in my advice, you know, I've had conversations with him about that. What I've discussed in terms of the future is I think we need to move in a measured way.
We're at a time where we are fighting two conflicts. There's a great deal of pressure on our forces and their families. And yet, again, the strategic intent is clear.
And if we get -- and I am internally discussing that with my staff on how to move forward and what the possible implementation steps could be. I haven't done any kind of extensive review. And what I feel most obligated about is to make sure I tell the president, you know, my -- give the president my best advice, should this law change, on the impact on our people and their families at these very challenging times.
KING: I want to close, sir, on this July 4th weekend with an issue that I know is very close to you and I know it's of much concern at the Pentagon. And that is the care for the wounded warriors coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere in the world.
You recently sent a memo to Secretary Gates after a trip to talk to military men and women about this, and the suicide rate is up, alcohol use is up, the divorce rate is up. You mentioned at Fort Hood there are only eight soldiers at a time allowed in the mental health symptoms classes. Fifty thousand troops are on that base at any given time.
What message does the president need to hear, the Congress need to hear, and, in fact, the American people need to hear, perhaps, sir, about what more needs to be done to make sure that these men and women coming home get everything they need? MULLEN: Well, I think leaders throughout the land and throughout communities in our country need to reach out and make sure that we are meeting the needs of these great, young Americans who sacrificed so much. And not just the military members, but their families. And while we've made a lot of progress in the last several years, we still have an awful long way to go.
There's a great deal we don't know about the combat stress, Post- Traumatic Stress. There's a great deal we don't know about the signature wounds of traumatic brain injury, whether it's mild or severe.
And in fact, young people, young families want to contribute to society. They still have dreams, and those dreams include getting to school, sending their kids to school, having a good job for both members of their family, and hopefully being able to own a home someday. And I think all of us in America need to pay this -- or repay this debt, that they've done so much for us, and do it in a way to make sure that they're in great shape for the rest of their lives.
KING: Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Sir, thanks for spending time with us this morning.
MULLEN: Thank you, John.
KING: Take care, sir.